Monday, February 8, 2016

It Doesn't Matter

I know that many have word limitations, such as 'whatever'.  Barney dislikes that word too, but it isn't widely used enough around here to be much of a concern.  What he can't stand, or so he claims, is , " It doesn't matter".  It has become my 'catch phrase' for the last while.  He thinks it sounds hopeless.  I think it is the truth in some cases, and what I need to believe for me in others.

In my last post I unceremoniously declared that I was submissive.  I don't wear it like a badge, as I said, the realization of it has settled within in me.  No matter what is said or done between my husband and myself,  the fact remains, it isn't going to change a thing.  It isn't what I crave, it is who I am.

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay


So Now What?


Over the years I have seen many friends come to the end of their 'adventures' with ttwd.  Some haven't been able to continue, and who on earth can fault them for that?  A few have discovered that truly it wasn't for either of them.  The last group took what they needed from ttwd, improved their marriage and decided to shelve it, claiming to come back to it if need be in the future.

So what about me?  I have come to terms with a part of me, I always suspected was there.  I mentioned last time that ttwd keeps the insecurities away, but it doesn't MAKE me submissive any longer.  So is there a role for ttwd in our lives now?  Over time would my insecurities of who I am override my emotions and have me suppress who I chose right now to freely be?  Is that even possible?

I believe my biggest challenge would be, and IS maintaining some level of vulnerability.  With life the way it currently is here at our home, submission isn't taxing.  It just is.  There is no upping the ante.  With that, at least for me, I am in control of my submission.  Again that is fine, but what it does is flat line vulnerability.  We all know what happens after an extended period of being flatlined....



Recently I decided to step back from a few things I do around here. My house didn't fall into disrepair.  I am a housewife, over simplified, but there is a universal title many can relate to.  My stepping back didn't have to do with my 'day job'.  It had to do with the little things I did for my husband.  The 'extras'  were not mandatory, but I thought we both enjoyed~ me on the giving end and he on the receiving end.  I was a little hesitant to try this experiment, mostly for myself.  I knew that stopping these seemingly little things, could potentially be creating a void within me.  This void could also lead to a bigger disconnect than I had been feeling recently.  With a limited time in my head, I decided perhaps this was worth the risk.  The thought was, perhaps anticipating Barney's needs most days, did not enable him to 'request' what he wanted or needed from me.  It might be time to give him space to figure out what he requires from me, outside of safety 'regulations'.



Over a month ago,  Barney decided that in the interest of being consistent, he would basically remove all the 'rules/expectations' (whatever floats your boat)  and start new-bringing back each one slowly.  Yeah, that didn't work for me. On paper sure it sounded logical, but most of our rules have to do with safety concerns, ( I may or may not, depending on who you talk to, be a bit of a klutz).  Other rules surrounded health and well being.  All of those things were gone.  In addition it appeared that he cleared off the basic Dd ...D's if you will.  Instead of moving forward, it felt like I was losing everything.



Having no choice, I had to go along with his grand plan.  I still couldn't help but feel awful.  I felt that even though he had his reasons, it seemed like all the things he had built up over the past 3 years were not worthy of remembering for him.  It felt like those things no longer mattered~ I no longer mattered.  The odd thing really was that I did 99% of those things 90% of the time, simply because they were important to him.  I couldn't wrap my head around why on earth he needed to drop them to be more consistent.  For his part he couldn't or wouldn't recognize why this hurt so much.  In addition to all of this the 3 things he brought back to the 'table' had very little to do with advancing our relationship, or curbing destructive behavior which effects our relationship This is where I falter.  If I become hurt, I shut down.  If I stay shut down for an extended period of time, I start to build up steam and then it comes out.  Mostly now it comes out via tears and not anger, but it still is a hot mess.  Or I am.  It sets us back far more than say, not weary a cutting glove when cutting a pineapple, ( yes one of my *3* rules).

I know I'm not supposed to be the one in charge.  I know I need to let him get his footing again, because somewhere along the line he lost it.  I am not going to pretend that I didn't have anything to do with that.  I know that when I shut down it effects him.  It makes him question.  It makes him overthink and doubt.  I wished to God I was stronger than I am emotionally at times, but I'm not.  I wish I could easily spit out concerns and worries or~~ wait I did do that!  I did during my most vulnerable times, as coached by others.  All it did was aid us in getting to this spot.  I became a 'victim' of WWS.  Wounded Wife Syndrome, where you husband looks at you with pity.  He looks at you like you are broken.  For many that may sound loving and caring, for me it is very unsettling.  *I* have to pull myself back together, or  I end up walking over him because he appears not loving, but unable to handle my vulnerability.  ( Wonderful how the emotional brain works at times isn't it?).

So what of my experiment?


I struggled at first to not do things.  I then 'dug' deep,trying to be strong and hope that things would change. I could feel the change in me, and while I didn't like it, I hoped it would eventually spur some action or conversation at the very least?  What ended up happening, was me feeling weighted down again, heavy and lost.  I suppose in part that was because I was suppressing who I am, who I took so long to be okay with.  Worse than that was Barney's reaction.  With the exception of coffee in the morning he didn't acknowledge that things had changed for him.  He didn't SAY anything at all.  It was like ' it just didn't matter' to him.  All of the things I felt good about doing, things that fulfilled me because they made him happy, 'just didn't matter'.
***
( In all fairness to Barney he did pick up in what I consider areas of 'play'.  Things that if I was in a good emotional place, they would most definitely help to keep me there, but they haven't worked to date, to help me feel secure enough to expose my entirety again)

I have said in the past that I don't believe I consciously test.  I am not Super Submissive, trust me. I don't test because I am fearful that he won't react, and that will put me further into myself~a risk I generally am not willing to take.

I have disappeared literally over the past few days.  One day I went for a walk, without seeking him out first to INFORM him.  (We once had a 'rule' that I wasn't to leave the house without asking.  With his work the way it is, and our neighbourhood the way it is, this became very difficult to maintain ( in the summer).  The rule then changed to outside of the neighbourhood, because I couldn't phone him every time I walked across the street to sit on someone's step.   Anyway, that disappeared along with making plans without asking too).  I honestly thought it wouldn't matter.  I brought my phone, but only so I could listen to music.  I needed to get out.  Just before returning home, my phone rang.  I didn't answer it.  I was  minutes from home, and it wouldn't matter anyway.  When I arrived, our middle son said, " Dad just went out looking for you".  My heart sunk.  NOT because I was in trouble, but because maybe he was worried.  Although that really didn't seem like him.  He was gone for a very long time...VERY LONG.  I heard him come home, but he didn't come in the house. He stayed outside chopping ice for a long time.  I thought, 'Well maybe he wasn't that worried after all". Later,he entered our room and said something about not being as in shape as he used to be.  I said nothing. After a considerable amount of time had passed he asked which direction I walked ..." no", was all I said.  What difference would it make?  Clearly it didn't matter, and while I didn't leave to gain attention, but because I felt I needed OUT,  it sure didn't work OUT well for me.  The feelings of prewalk instantly returned.  That was the end of our discussion that day.

A couple of good days, or a day and a half of good days passed.  Then it hit the proverbial fan again.  I knew there would be several days where I would be alone, or he would be preoccupied.  I was prepared for that.  What I wasn't prepared for was something one of our sons wanted to talk about.  Alone, I listened.  Alone, prior I was going through my own things.  Barney went out with the other boys that night.  Alone, I tried to preoccupy myself.  I decided to make a drink to take the edge off....and then another....and another.  I stopped at 3 (large ones), which used to be a rule of mine.  Now the rule is NO drinks without permission, although it has never been inforced.  Again, I wasn't testing, as I figured it just didn't matter....and once again it didn't.  ONE of my THREE rules, broken, and nothing.  When Barney came home that night I was still up ( past my bedtime, another rule) talking to our son.   Of course he took priority, so I knew that wouldn't matter.  Later in the privacy of our room I discussed what was happening with our son.  All in all that was a good conversation.

After, Barney asked me something 'mundane'.  Earlier in the day we had had an issue, he and I.  I stupidly assumed that because I was actually opening up, he'd take the opportunity to talk about 'it'.  He didn't.   Hurt I rolled over and dismissed him.  We exchanged words, and after the lights went out, I got out of bed and went to sleep on the couch.  I did hear a 'Get back here' as I walked out of the bedroom, but I didn't see him until the next morning as I was about to basically walk out the door to buy groceries ( again another long forgotten 'rule' about driving our van without him...etc...etc..).  He said he was coming with me, and informed me we were going to talk.  Oh and we did for a few minutes about TALKING..sigh.  Groceries complete, with minimal verbal exchanges, we headed home.  I waited and waited, nothing.  A few blocks from home, I told him to pull into the gas station.  I gave him instructions concerning our oldest son's work schedule and got out of the van.

" Where are you going?"

" I don't know, but home is not an option, if this silence is continuing"  and with that I left.  FYI it is February in Canada I didn't think that through.

About an hour later I returned home and immediately went to the laundry room in the basement, avoiding everyone.  Not that it mattered.  We were due to go out with friends that night so I had to pull myself together.  I wanted nothing more than to cancel, but I had to go, and hoped it would help my frame of mind.  My body ached from stress.  Nothing I did or took relieved the tension in my arm and wrist.  My hip ached from walking when I shouldn't have in boots that weren't made for distance, at least since I hurt myself last year.  I was tired from sharing the couch with the stupid dog, but more over, I was crushed.

I remember telling Barney the night before, 'You can't handle me when I shut down, and you can't handle me when I am vulnerable.  So who or what is it that you want or need from me?  Because I don't know anymore.  I give you what I can and it doesn't make a difference.  I stop giving to you and you don't say anything"

The last statement he commented on, " Oh I noticed"  He also went on to tell me that he was very pissed when I went for my solo walk, and after not finding me he kept walking to clear his head.  He was pissed that I went to sleep on the couch, but decided it might be better if he didn't say anything at the time.  He ...he....he... but guess what?  All this did was send me messages that ' it just didn't matter to him'.  Nothing I did good or bad mattered enough for him to comment either way.  That is the message I received.

Barney went from being a non talker, to an exclusive talker~ Except of course when it counts, like in the moment!  I guess I am too challenging to say something at the time?  A little speaking would often go a long way.  However if one waits TOO long it does have the tendency to fall on deaf ears, I'll give you that.

Our last two days have gone on like nothing negative has happened between us.  Yesterday I was supposed to wake him up at 8 am.  I didn't.  At first because I forgot, and then thought maybe I mis-remembered.  Later I didn't because I was crying and didn't really want to be around anyone, least of all him.  After I bathed I walked into our room to see him in bed, I did an about face to leave.  He ordered me back in.  I was given a short lecture and an even shorted physical reprimand .  I have to say I was surprised because the boys were still sleeping on the same floor.  He hasn't done that in almost a year under those circumstances. Once again I feel like I have to sweep everything under the carpet and start again, suppressing feelings that have occurred over the past few weeks.  I am not one to dwell on the past, but this is different.  It feels like what happened " just doesn't matter".

I am grateful that he tried, I am.  I am trying not to be negative, but I think I have been too idealistic in my thinking for far too long sometimes.  It only leads to disappointment.  I am not saying I am going to become a pessimist, but more of a realist.




 Often in our relationship, what I see as the starting of a good foundation, Barney appears to see as the cherry on top.  It has become increasingly more difficult to talk about that, and what 'coasting' does to me after so very many discussions concerning the same topic.

After a while it feels like...

It Just Doesn't Matter.

16 comments:

  1. Willie. It does matter and you matter. I am no expert and I don't have time to look back, but I've read TONS of your stuff. In a previous post, you talk about how one day you decided to start taking the steps to do things for Barney; the little things. You wrote about being in very much the same place you are writing about now. You were disconnecting. It may have been a post about you being done with ttwd or something around that time. I think "Wilma has left the building" or something like that. Then, you said you made the conscious decision to start doing things for him and for your relationship again. AND, it worked. You know I'm very new at this but I've gotten to know a good blog friend (I'm talking about you) who always asked me WHY I feel, do, think, act a certain way. WHY are you here again? I know you've been here before because I read about it. WHY do you feel the need to test Barney on how you matter to him? I overthink and get upset with Eric and 9 out of 10 times, he pulls further away thinking I have stopped loving him. Our men may be the strong dominant male force in our lives but they are also vulnerable and when we "test" their role in our relationships, sometimes we bring that vulnerable unsure side of them out, when what we are really looking for is the NO QUESTION, YOU WILL UNDERSTAND kind of response. Read your old posts and find the pattern. You might be submissive and vulnerable but whether you realize it or not, YOU DO MATTER and IT DOES MATTER and if you are not happy, neither will Barney, be happy. One of you needs to pull you out of this but it might need to start with you. Take that step back into the relationship you want so Barney sees that he can be the man you love. He may not have even realized what you stopped doing and then, by the time he pieced it all together, he might truly be at a loss as to where you have gone and why. Try going a few days without talking about it but start bringing it all back. Let you test go from removal to bringing it all back - see if he notices that! Go for the good times and the good stuff. We all know it's in the little things. Bring back the ones that make you feel good about being the kind of wife you love to be. Don't worry about Barney letting you know exactly how it all matters the way you want to hear it matter. I can guarantee you, it matters. Bring it back. See what happens. Be the Wilma you love being and watch Barney come to life again. Read your old stuff. ANALYZE YOU in between bringing back the little things. Hang in there, girl. You got this. I know you do. Amy

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  2. I have tried to comment several times. I am trying to figure out a way to explain to you without dismissing what you have said above. First off I wasn't testing Barney on how I matter or how he feels about me. I stopped doing those things in order for him to see himself and his needs, IF they have them. How I perceived how he felt was a sh*tty bi product of that. Unlike in the past, we are no longer in a place where I have or can react a certain way in order to pull him out of this.

    Once upon a time, your comment would have been bang on, like during the Wilma Has Left the Building phase of our lives. Where I personally find myself now however is completely different. I do normally suggest that people analyze themselves, and I fully believe that is the first step in any situation. I have done that here, trust me. But there comes a time where self reflection can only do so much. I am no longer uncomfortable with who I am.

    This isn't about that, or the 'little' things I do. From reading your blog I get the distinct feeling that Eric is currently the one guiding your ttwd relationship and your relationship in general. I am not saying ruling with an iron fist, I am referring to 'catching you' if you fall. I am referring to not disappearing ( at least as often, growth is slow at times) when you push. When you first start ttwd, the first year or so, all of it can be overwhelming for everyone involved. This is not what I am referring to as much in my post.

    I can't help Barney get out of this 'rut' we have found ourselves in. There comes a time where you have to just step back and let them breathe. Tell them how you feel, show them what you mean, but that is all you can do. No amount of laying out his pj's or leaving the light on for him is going to change what he is going through, only he can do that. No amount of me reexamining how I feel about situations is going to change how he feels or views the world at the moment. Only he can do that for himself. I can be here to listen, I can suggest or express, but other than that, it is truly up to him.

    We talked before I put this post up. My reasoning for sharing was because several of my girlfriends are experiencing the same things at the moment. While we are different in many ways, the feelings are the same. Ironically we are all about 3 years in. I wonder if instead of the 7 year itch like in vanilla marriages there is a 3 year 'itch/breaking point' in a ttwd marriage?

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  3. Hi Willie, wow, I think I’d also feel completely lost if hubby took away rules and ttwd, even if it was only to start all over. I am sorry to say that, but when most of the rules you have are about your safety and health, removing these does not make much sense to me, and the way you describe what happened sounds like you sort of feel the good these rules do for you, too. … And that is only the part about safety and health (… imagine dramatic music here …)
    Barney’s plan must have hurt you a real lot, and I am so sorry that you had this, and I am sorry if that sounds like criticism in any way, which is only because the idea of taking so much away makes my hair stand on end. It sounds so much like ripping something out of your inner core, ew.

    I think that staying vulnerable can be difficult to do on the one hand, but it can be one of the most beautiful parts of being submissive too, because it helps so much in creating connection. Then again, in your current situation it seems that there is something amiss, maybe I got that wrong, but I understood that you are more like roaming around in cold February Canada, looking for the warm lights of your home. To make matters worse I understood that you do not feel that Barney has organized the search party to bring you to the warm place. Sorry for this exaggerated picture, but your description really did create this feeling of being lost in me. That sucks. :(

    Ok, so you have talked. But you still have this feeling of ‘it just doesn’t matter’, and I am fully with you on feeling that way. I think one reason is because living without any of the rules between you and Barney sounds like a bad idea for me too. I don’t know, perhaps it is from seeing such things connected to needs, feeling sort of understood and taken seriously. Maybe talking about some of these points has become more difficult, but at the same time communicating could be your best way out of some troubles. Is Barney really aware of how you feel about his decision? Could it be that he did not expect you to suffer the way you do?
    I hope so much that what you go through at the moment will be solved in a way that leaves both of you on the same page.

    lots of love

    Nina

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  4. Hi NiNa , yes this is Barney! Thanks for your reply. Obviously, (or not), my thought process on taking away the rules was not sound or brought about the response in Wilma I expected or wanted. But at this point in our relationship I should have anticipated her reaction. I am not going to give anyone a list of excuses or reasons to explain away why I do what I do but I will try to explain what was swirling around in my head at the time.
    It has been pointed out in the past by Wilma that I have not been consistent in following through, or initiating, in ttwd. The Rules being one area. There have been times when I haven't noticed things or haven't responded (positively or negatively) at all or in a timely way. I believe that inconsistency breeds mistrust and Wilma's walls will rise, she will distance, and that had happened with rules, sending the message to her "it just doesn't matter and I don't matter". And who could blame her. The rules DO MATTER to me that is why I created them. I believe that they have a real and practical purpose that is not only the best thing for Wilma but also gives me a tangible area in which I can assert some dominance. When I have lapsed in consistency with the rules it hurts Wilma, my intention (paving our way to happiness?) was to (yes) take away the rules and without delay re-assert them a few at a time and most importantly FOLLOW THROUGH as a purpose to re-gain her trust.
    I must admit there are many situations that "I just don't get" and we are not on the same page. I believe I need to see and feel things through Wilma's eyes and heart and I want to be in her heart. I think Wilma may believe that I have not accepted who she has grown to be and that is true, but I want to accept and on my way to truly understanding her I seem to be sending the message of rejection! I know Wilma is out there in the cold and some times I think I walk right past her and don't see her for the snow. (please excuse the dramatic visual).

    Thanks for listening,
    Barney

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    Replies
    1. Hi Barney, as far as I know you do not reply here often, so thank you very much for doing that now! I hope you are not too miffed because some of what I wrote must read like criticism directed against you, although most of it is more about how I understand what’s going on. But seriously, taking away the rules does not sound good to me at all (obviously). I know how much I would suffer from such a thing happening here.

      I think I sort of get what you say about consistency and following through, so I do see that you positively wanted to work on something that matters to Wilma and you, which I think is awesome. However, this time things have backfired big style, haven’t they (sorry for rubbing that in; but I really love that you had good intentions! :) ).

      I am not sure that I completely understand what you imply with you not having accepted who Wilma has grown to be, but what I do see is your willingness to be there for Willie and to take good care of her out of love. Besides, from what you and Wilma write, both of you do want this close connection. So, maybe all it takes is talking … and listening. I am so sure that the two of you will be doing that and will find your way back to making clear what you need and want.

      Thank you once again for taking your time and replying. I appreciate that a lot.

      hugs

      Nina

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    2. Don't worry Nina he wasn't miffed in the least by what you said. In fact he said it was good to hear it from another source other than me. Sometimes it is easier to hear it worded differently, with less emotions.

      I am with you on this-> *I am not sure that I completely understand what you imply with you not having accepted who Wilma has grown to be* I live with the man and we talk ALL the time, this threw me for a complete loop. I mean honestly I haven't a clue why he would say that, it actually contradicts almost everything he has said in the past....yet I suppose that shouldn't surprise me considering where he is at the moment ;).

      Thanks for BOTH of your comments! LOL

      willie

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    3. Yes sometimes (often) my response or comments do not add clarity or at worse seem even more hurtful to Wilma. Struggling to understand a person and changes they have gone through is not the same as a flat rejection of what or who they have become. Of course I accept what Wilma has become. She is a vulnerable and submissive woman. I haven't yet learned to completely nurture, support and lead her effectively as to create the mutual bliss I want for us. I am behind the curve on this and playing catch up to Wilma can prove to be a humbling time. My time here will help and I need to hear from others. I am not here to look for agreement but I need input from other perspectives to grow. I think people need to be shown in real and meaningful ways that they are accepted and that they are understood at the core.

      Barney

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  5. Lots to take in and ponder here but...

    I don't understand why you stopped doing things for him, when they make you feel good and you KNOW he likes it. Maybe he shouldn't have to ask for it or show that it matters(*worried look* Don't hate me!!)...because you already KNOW it matters. Those times that I've stopped doing things, for whatever reason, gives him the impression I don't want to do those things, that they don't matter to me. AND I feel like poop! It's a vicious circle--he thinks I don't care, I think he doesn't care, we both feel like crap, we both don't know what to do.

    Sure, I want a reaction! Heck yes, I want rules! I want action (not the sex kind, but that's nice too), darn it! It calms my mind and soothes my soul, of course I want it.

    When I don't do stuff it is my way of crying out that I need him, that I need help. (Beat me, hug me, show me we are really doing this!, or just do SOMETHING). It's not to test him, like he once believed. Maybe it's the same for you? Husband didn't realize that's what was going on with me until I found the words to explain.

    The rules...I think he was doing what he thought was best (and maybe even though you can't see why, maybe it is for the best), but I know how it hurts.

    To me, it seems like he cares so much, that it matters so much, that he's not quite sure what to do...

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  6. Hi Misty, I don't HATE you...LOL

    I said I stopped doing the EXTRAS to see if he would put a voice to them. Generally speaking I anticipate his needs, most of the time. The idea was to give him the opportunity to voice what he wanted, because perhaps he didn't speak up as there was nothing he desired. It wasn't to force him into showing me it mattered. The idea was almost the same as what he replied to in his comment to Nina, to have concrete examples of what he wanted by voicing it. Clearly as I stated it didn't work for me, and I knew that it probably wouldn't, but I was willing to take the chance if it helped him find his footing by being able to say something and have me do it.

    As for not doing things as a way of crying out? Yes we have talked about that a hundred times if we have once over the last 3 years. Generally I forget certain things if my mind is not where it should be submissively, but I don't consciously not do my part. Barney has gone so far as to say to me even when I am so angry or hurt I see red, " We both KNOW you are going to do it" URGH! Even this time, it wasn't things required of me that I didn't do, it was the extras.

    I understand why he thought it was best, but the fact remains he didn't even follow through with THOSE rules...LOL. Again we have talked about all of this, so this post was not one for discussion between the two of us. It was merely a sharing post for sharing sake.

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  7. Hey you guys. I'm sorry you are lost in the snow, Wilma. Barney thanks for clarifying what's in your head and that you are trying to gain her trust back. I understand why you might feel like it doesn't matter. I am often there myself because of the inconsistency or lack of response. I am coming to the place of "meh" who cares anymore. The disappointment isn't worth it. We are coming up to two years and because we have boys in the house whenever we are home Zeke just finds the effort too much. He says too that things bother me much more than they bother him. So if it doesn't bother him it's not on his radar. Wish I could clear my radar that easily. Problem is I can't and don't always know how to get rid of 'STUFF'.

    Anyway I think I understand. I hope you both can come to a place of peace and understanding and find your balance once again.

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    1. Hey Paige,

      Yes I remember those days ( probably year two as well) where my disrespect slip ups were far more damaging, I thought then they were for Barney. Okay I know that sounds like an odd response in conjunction with this post, but there is a lot I left out of this post ( I know right? It is already a million words long and to think I left stuff out! lol).

      Anyway, at the time Barney and I would sit down every night and we would assess our interactions during the day. I would explain why I felt I was disrespectful, and how, and he would listen and ask questions. He came to understand that my mindset was not always as obvious as my tone. In addition, he also realized, as a friend of ours once said, maybe he had gotten used to certain levels of disrespect over the years and no longer recognized it when it came from me. It really did help us to talk about this, and it only took about 10 days of talking each night...GRANTED again, when you read this post it might seem all for naught, however we are in a 'rut' but it doesn't mean this has always been an issue....LOL

      I do understand the 'meh' , and the disappointment isn't worth it idea too. If I had a nickel for every time...lol, and I can't tell you that if you keep trying it will get better as I have no idea, but what I *will* tell you, despite what we are currently going through as a couple, I am far more content with myself, and my insecurities surrounding me than I have ever been. Somehow we will get through this, either way, and I may have battle scars to show but what I have learned about myself can never be taken away.

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  8. My Friend,
    I believe what you are experiencing is well..... wait for it................. what MOST of us do, just some people (me) more than others. I understand exactly what you are saying.

    I understand stopping the "extras". Not at all to upset him, lets see if this matters to him. I believe whole heartedly that it does. He might not say it or express it right then, but I believe he would eventually. That eventually can take entirely too long and cause havoc for me. In my mind anyway.

    I think for us the difficulty is my (Lee) is an over thinker, he is also an over achiever (not in ttwd necessarily) but it is important to him to do it "right". I have no idea what "right" is but with him "thinking, contemplating, heck maybe even dissecting" what he is deciding, well by the time he gets through with whatever it is he is deciding, time has passed. Too much time passing is a problem for me or used to be. I used to get very frustrated or I would question in my head or sometimes to him "Is this something you want? Am I exhausting you? etc

    Now as we are almost starting our 3rd year I am a bit different, more accepting of "whatever". I don't mean that in a rude way. I don't say anything really. It is not that I can't talk to him. IDK why I haven't I guess I just feel I have said it and many times. For me, I need to feel what he wants this cannot be just for me. He always tells me this is for him as much as it is for me. Mmmm?

    We actually had a conversation tonight (I didn't bring it up)about me believing he isn't paying attention to things we have discussed, and him believing I have been actually very good about doing things we have discussed. Funny how we both see things clearly different some of the time.

    I think your post can speak for many. I love that Barney responded in here!
    I know you both will work this lil snowstorm out. It just takes a little heat to melt the snow, or better yet consistently shoveling that snow can result in a clear path ahead.

    (((honey)))

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  9. Hi Honey,

    Thanks for your insightful comments.
    It seems that Lee and myself do have a lot in common by what I gather from your comments. I tend to over analyse things and not respond within a time frame that sends a message that it matters to me and Wilma is the most important thing to me. At times when I eventually get something "right" it can be right for me but not necessarily for Wilma or at all helpful for us. Anticipating things through Wilma's eyes needs to happen more on my part, as opposed to my often self absorbed approach. More later.

    Barney

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    1. Well naturally I disagree ! LMAO. I think maybe, just maybe all this over analyzing IS because in part you or Lee, or men (um SOME MEN ;) ) try and see through 'the eyes' of the woman. As we all know you guys tend to SUCK as seeing things the way we do. I don't know the answer to this problem, aside from sticking to your guns, and listening...actually HEARING what is being said. Sure you are going to screw up, it happens, it is what happens next that makes the screw up either a learning experience, a blip on the screen or a cluster f*ck. I think most women want men to remember what they say about how certain things both positive and negative make them feel...not so much if they liked it or not. I for one can deal with doing things or experiencing things I don't like or even HATE, it is just things that I find 'damaging' to my emotions that I wish wouldn't happen again, or if they do, to have some clarity BEFORE hand why you/they are taking that approach~ at the risk of sounding like a control freak.

      If couples have a history of stumbling I think maybe these moments of communication/clarity might need to happen for some time until the submissive partner feels like they can trust their partner or the outcome,or the very least can be hopeful this time it will be different.

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  10. Oh here I am, late as usual.
    What can I say? I know it, I've been (am) there, I live it.
    H has never told me he's taken away the rules, they are just not there any more, I eventually realise.

    I tell my staff at school that they need to catch their hardest, most difficult to deal with students being good, doing the right thing, even if it's only for a second, because we know they just want attention, whether they know it or not. And if they don't get attention for doing it right they are bloody well going to make sure that they get it by making you notice them doing it wrong. Any sort of attention is better than none, so they say.
    Now I don't know about you but I have realised that there is some truth in this for me too.
    H, like Barney, notices but doesn't always say. He stores it up or tries to forget it to be nice to me, to give me a break, ha!

    When you don't know where the edge of the cliff is any more, each step you take is scary.

    I've got no advice, just understanding, I think, maybe slightly different to you but somewhere in the same area.

    Oh and one little after thought ... When H does something for me he makes sure I notice - he talks about it, refers back to it, keeps checking in with me that I really liked it. We've said before that with the Mars/ Venus thing going on we need to be explicit to our men, should we be asking them for feedback on the extras we do?

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    1. Well how is THIS for a late reply? LOL

      Now I find it quite difficult to respond to this comment as it was so long ago. My issue I know. LOL. Barney isn't or wasn't a huge talker, he does talk more after the first year of ttwd, but he still keeps a lot in his head.

      I am laughing at your comment about rules just not being there anymore, and you eventually realize. More recently rules have just appeared 'back' and the only way I found out was bent over something being caned for breaking them! I mean I was there for a rule I KNEW I broke, but the " and also...." sort of threw me for a bit of a loop.

      Back to this post though, I think honestly it did me FAR more damage, this little experiment than it did anything else. Obviously it didn't move Barney in any positive direction. Worse than creating a situation that confirmed my fears, it allowed me to create 'stories' in my head, while not accepting my submission which is part of who I am in my core. It is never a good thing moving away from who you are for whatever reason. I DON"T RECOMMEND IT! lol

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